Ongoing Jihadi civil war in France....

[DreamTone7]

Wow...it might be easier just to solve world hunger! There is more going on with most of these subjects than meets the media eye, I'm sure. The computer screen is giving me a headache today, so you'll pardon me if I get back to you on what I think of these subjects. (I promise)



I will say that I agree with what you say about leaders setting precident, but would like to get more into why you think America is the leader in ALL of these subjects you've brought up. Perhaps you could start by explaining this, and we can go from there...if you're not too bored by it all. Remember...it's not a discussion unless all voice their viewpoints.



See ya...

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

[HKRockChick]

Quote:

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but would like to get more into why you think America is the leader in ALL of these subjects you've brought up.

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???? when did I say that?

[MIKE BURN]

Last night (sunday)...........

Quote:

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4413250.stm



A night of rioting in France has left 1,408 vehicles burnt out and resulted in 395 arrests - the highest tolls yet in 11 nights of unrest.



Ten policemen were injured by shots and stones when they confronted 200 rioters in the Paris suburb of Grigny, with two policemen seriously hurt.

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Now we are entering the hot phase..... unfortunately a gang of "foreigners" set 5 cars in Bremen over here in northern-Germany on fire as well last night. I hope this was an act of a few idiots and not the beginning of something organized. My fellow Germans may truly react different than the French.

Quote:

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French riots claim first victim



http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/11/07/france.riots/index.html



Monday, November 7, 2005 Posted: 1346 GMT (2146 HKT)



PARIS, France (CNN) -- A man who was beaten by an attacker during rioting north of Paris has died, becoming the first fatality since urban unrest started 11 days ago, according to the French Foreign Ministry.



The man was beaten as he tried to put out a trash can fire on Friday in the Paris suburb of Stains in the region of Seine-Saint Denis.



A ministry spokesman identified the man as Jean Jacques Le Chenadec, 61, and said he died in a hospital of his wounds. He had been in a coma since the attack near his home.

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[Rev9Volts]

if the french would have acted like nepolean... roll in the cannons loaded with brokern glass and nails!

[Rev9Volts]

It was the 11th night of rioting and attacks in and around Paris last night. Turn on almost any broadcast or cable newscast and you'll hear all about it. Thousands of busses and cars have been burned. Police are being shot at. Paramedics are being attacked. By who? By "youths." That's pretty much it. All of this trouble is being caused by "youths." Now that we've reached the 11th night of this violence, you will hear the occasional newscaster actually say the "M" word. Every once in a while ... but very sparingly ... someone will breach the walls of political correctness and actually let you know that these "youths" are Muslims. French police have discovered a bomb-making factory in Paris. These rioters are chanting "It's Baghdad here." France, the leader of the Axis of Weasels, is under attack. Paris, home to those who condemned America for removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq, is under siege -- by Muslim jihadists -- by the very people France tried so hard to protect and appease.



It's not just France. These wonderful peace-loving Muslims are attacking cruise ships off the African coast. Oh .. you didn't know they were Muslims? What a surprise! We heard all weekend long that "pirates" attacked a cruise ship chock full of Americans off the coast of Somalia last week. Funny how the media didn't identify Somalia as a Muslim stronghold, and report that the so-called pirates were almost certainly Muslims. Then we have the Muslims who cut the heads off three Christian school girls in Indonesia within the last few weeks.



France, in case you didn't know, is home to Europe's largest Muslim community. Sixty million French, and about 10% of them are Muslims. For the past five years these Muslims in France have been confining their attacks to synagogues, Jewish schools and other symbols of Judaism. Officials didn't seem to get all that worked up over the attacks as long as Jews and Jewish institutions were the target. Now the attacks have spread beyond Jewish targets. How many cities are under attack in France now? Sixty?



It's not just France. Mark Steyn writes in the Chicago Sun-Times that in Brussels Belgian police officers are advised not to be seen drinking coffee in public during Ramadan. In some Swedish cities ambulance drivers will not go into Muslim areas without police escorts.



This isn't the first time that France has been under attack by Muslims. It happened before. It happened in 732. The French (amazingly) turned them back. If they hadn't, the entire history of the Western world might be very much different today. If you want the details, Read Steyn's column..



America too. Since September 11th the list of Muslims arrested in America for plotting terrorist activities is much longer than 99% of Americans realize.



Do you see what's happening here? Radical Islamists are emboldened. They're encouraged. They're attacking France right now and Weasel-in-Chief Jacques Chirac is talking about a "spirit of dialogue and respect." Respect? Respect hell! These Islamic radicals are determined to remake Europe to their liking, an Islamic state. They're encouraged. How could they not be? Every time they cut off some more heads from the torsos of Christian school girls, every time they shoot a child in the back, every time they attack a nursery in Paris, or kill a school teacher in Baghdad; every time the step up their violence against the West the leaders of the countries they hate start talking about the spirit of dialogue and respect. In Paris officials are already talking about more money, more jobs, more programs, more handouts to appease the rampaging Muslims.



In America? We can't even manage to get a common sense immigration policy that would severely restrict (if not eliminate) any and all immigration and visitors from Islamic countries. They've openly expressed their hatred of us, and their desire to see as many of us dead as possible ... and we do next-to-nothing to keep them out of our country. Profiling? Good God no! We can't profile. We can't treat anyone of Middle Eastern appearance at an airport security checkpoint any different than we would treat an 89-year-old woman in a wheelchair. Multiculturalism? We have to keep that fraud alive too! We can't even suggest that the Judeo-Christian culture of America is in any way superior to the culture of violence that permeates the Muslim countries of the Middle East and the Pacific Rim.



At some point we're going to realize that we're slap in the middle of World War IV here, the war against the Islamic Jihad. Perhaps we will come to that realization before winning that battle will be too bloody to imagine.

[DreamTone7]

DT - "I will say that I agree with what you say about leaders setting precident, but would like to get more into why you think America is the leader in ALL of these subjects you've brought up."



HKRC - "???? when did I say that?"



HKRC - "For a start, pay its debts, obey international law, sign the kyoto treaty, don't invade other countries on bs pretexts... as a world leader it has a huge responsibility which it is tossing to the winds..."





OK...my bad. But I'll ask again with the change ("a" instead of "the"), how is the US a world leader in ALL of these issues? How is it the US needs to do things differently than other countries? Why do you think our responsibilities should be any different?

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

[DreamTone7]

Good post rev...very "to the point". Based on the earlier post by Mike, methinks Germany will soon be part of the "hit parade". The writing has been on the wall for a long time.

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

[Rev9Volts]

it was a copy and paste. neil bortz or something... his tYpIng Is too gooD for me.

[HKRockChick]

DT

Quote:

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how is the US a world leader in ALL of these issues? How is it the US needs to do things differently than other countries? Why do you think our responsibilities should be any different?

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"how is the US a world leader in ALL of these issues?" unfortunately the US is NOT the world leader as is should be in all of THE ISSUES I raised. Quite the opposite. However, as a superpower, a member of the G8, the richest, most powerful nation in the world and acknowledged "world leader" it falls far short of its responsibilities.



The issues I mentioned are not ITS responsibilities as a leader, but simply things that it should be doing as a member of the world community. It is not, and worse, it is a aggressor with bad intentions, while trying to disarm other nations.



How many other nations dyu know after the 2nd world war that breached international law and invaded another country, and continue to breach Geneva conventions. Would you like to mention your country in the same breath as them?



DT, I was surprised by your question and its espoused lack of knowledge. I hope for your sake it is rhetorical. If you are truly ignorant of the place of the US in the world and its responsbilities and what it has failed to do, then we should discontinue this discussion.

[DreamTone7]

HKRC - "However, as a superpower, a member of the G8, the richest, most powerful nation in the world and acknowledged "world leader" it falls far short of its responsibilities."



Acknowledged "world leader" by who? Lately it's been more like "world doormatt"...lambasted for what we do and for what we don't do. The truth is that the US is just a country...one among many. I do realize that because of the deeds America has done over the years that many countries (though increasingly few) "look up" to us. Maybe I'd even be willing to suffer the term "world leader" if just a few countries would follow our lead on things like terrorism, for example. But instead, everybody wants to be able to say what we should be doing instead of thinking about what they themselves should be doing. As a strictly unofficial "world leader", acknowledged or not, the US only has responsibility to itself and to others with regard to those treaties it has signed with them. The US has no obligations to other countries (or people) beyond that...and nobody has the right to expect anything else.





HKRC - "The issues I mentioned are not ITS responsibilities as a leader, but simply things that it should be doing as a member of the world community."



That's in your opinion...we'll deal with those issues subject by subject, subsequently. Again, it's not for others outside the US to say what we should be doing...anymore than it's up to the US to be saying what they should do. But "as a memeber of the world community" is more along the lines of how I think the US should fit in with the rest of the world. Just like any other country.





HKRC - "How many other nations dyu know after the 2nd world war that breached international law and invaded another country"



What international law? If you're referring to the UN, I have as little faith in them to make decisions and take decisive action in the world as you apparently have in the US to do what you think is right. The UN should have done something about Saddam, for example, instead of sit on their hands. Problem is that the UN is composed of too many countries (like France) that are unwilling to step up to the plate and take action. Countries are too often concerned only with themselves to take part in the rest of the world. In this manner, I suppose the US is a leader...only in the fact that nobody else is willing to do anything. They all just want to stand by and watch the guy with the assault-rifle fire into the crowd and kill people. I think we can all agree that that's wrong. If you believe (as I do) that Saddam had WMD in Iraq when the US first went in there, then I think we might agree that what we (the US) did was right, in just the same way as stopping the guy with the assault-rifle is right. At least I hope we would agree. Saddam used gas to kill off an entire section of his own people...is there some magic number a country has to kill off in this manner before somebody (another country/UN-style organization) steps in to stop it? The UN should have done something and it did not. The UN is lame...and it's not because of the US. The US did what the UN should have done.



The Iraqi people are glad we came in...that should be enough for the rest of the world...and it should send them (and the UN) a message. Instead, they stand on the sidelines jeering and whining about all that we do.



As for a direct answer to your question, there are other countries that have invaded...most of which do not make the media front page to the extent that it does as when Bush blows his nose. (Again, another problem with relying on the media for your outlook on the world.) Russia in Afghanistan comes to mind right off the top of my head...just as an example. Why not pick on them?





HKRC - "and continue to breach Geneva conventions."



Examples, please?





I'll let you decide if we should continue or not. I hope this is not a case of "see things the way I see them or you're wrong", again. I just wanted to know why you think the US should be "doing it better" than everyone else, and why you think you have the right to think so.

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

[HKRockChick]

DT, I think we can continue this discussion when you are better informed. You come across as way too lacking in general and world knowledge for me to even begin to fill in the gaps.



I don't have the time nor am I paid enough to give you this type of general education you should've had in school, so sorry if I decline to respond to your posts.



At least have the courtesy to say how YOU are going to change - since you did say change comes from within. You have, in your normal way, evaded THAT issue quite adroitly.

[DreamTone7]

HKRC - "You come across as way too lacking in general and world knowledge for me to even begin to fill in the gaps."



Sounds like a cop-out to me...but as you will.





HKRC - "At least have the courtesy to say how YOU are going to change..."



You first.



But seriously, my need for change is real, yet comes from my own beliefs about what is and what isn't important for personal change as found in the Bible...not from some girl who lives on the other side of the world.

[HKRockChick]

"You first."



Classic DT cop-out - I already went first further up in this thread.



How old are you? six?

[DreamTone7]

It was a joke...I answered the question in the post. It's the part right after "seriously".

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

[HKRockChick]

too vague. You had asked WHAT are you going to do. The response has to be specific, otherwise its meaningless, another cop out.